This is a canned response from the moderator of soc.religion.christian (who is not LDS) to questions about LDS (Mormon) beliefs. This is discussed often enough that I sometimes don't want to start yet another discussion on the newsgroup. Thus I've tried to summarize the issues as I see them, based primary on discussions in this newsgroup and talk.religion.misc. Portions of this note are derived from Jay Windley's comments on a draft. However he shouldn't be held responsible for the contents. If you are interested in additional information, I will refer you to one of the LDS participants in soc.religion.christian. I don't know of any books about the LDS church written by non-LDS that I would trust, though there surely must be one. "Mormon" is the common name for members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The term Latter-day Saints is slightly preferred (normally abbreviated LDS). They believe that they are saved through Christ's death, accept the authority of the Bible, and thus consider themselves Christians. However they have a number of beliefs that are unusual from the perspective of mainstream Christianity. Here are some of them: The most basic difference is that they believe the angel Moroni revealed a set of golden plates to Joseph Smith, which contain scripture that is as authoritative as the Bible. This scripture (the Book of Mormon) contains an account of Christ's appearance to people living in America before the coming of Europeans. The principle groups described are The Jaredites - refugees from the Tower of Babel whose language was not corrupted. The Mulekites - members of the royal family of Zedekiah who fled Judah in the melee of the Babylonian conquest. The name may derive from Hebrew "melek," rendering "Kingsmen" an accurate translation. The Nephites/Lamanites - the most familiar of the groups. They are of the tribe of Manasseh. Many of their specific doctrines come from the Book of Mormon. In addition to the Book of Mormon, the LDS believe that prophecy is still alive in the church, and in particular that the LDS leadership speaks with prophetic authority. Thus another source of specific LDS doctrines is revelations to their leaders. There is a source of considerable confusion: not everything that their leaders say is authoritative. In particular, Joseph Smith did a lot of speculation. Not all of it is considered official doctrine. A number of anti-LDS writers cite writings containing these speculations, assuming that they represent official LDS doctrine. LDS do not accept the doctrine of the Trinity (although a few accept a concept of "godhead" that seems to me very close to being acceptable under Trinitarian standards). They do believe in Father, Son and Holy Spirit. However these are physically distinct persons. The Father and Son each have a tangible body, which however is made of incorruptible substance, unlike ours. The Holy Spirit does not have a body. LDS do not accept the clear distinction that mainstream Christianity makes between God and humanity, and between corporeality and divinity. God and humans are in some sense the same species. This means that humans can develop to be like God. "As man now is, God once was./As God now is, man may become." I have seen a good deal of additional speculation about this subject, but much of this speculation appears to go beyond official doctrine. LDS beliefs are unusual enough that it makes many of the standard criteria for heresy non-applicable. LDS have been accused of being Arian, but they really aren't. Arians believe that Christ is a demi-god, neither truly human nor fully God. LDS believe Christ is fully human and fully God. But they don't think these things are incompatible. Thus believing that Christ is human and God does not involve them in the theological complexities of the Incarnation and Trinity. LDS believe that the Church lost its authority in the early centuries. Joseph Smith effectively refounded the Christian Church. This does not mean that they deny the existence of Christians during the interim, nor outside the LDS church. However they believe the Catholic church became corrupt to the extent that it no longer had the full authority of Christ's church. While they admire the work done by Martin Luther and others, no one but Christ could recreate the church fully, and he did so only with the LDS church. They believe that almost no one ends up in hell permanently. Rather than hell, they have a "spirit prison". Souls of the dead await the resurrection in a "spirit world", which consists of the prison and paradise. The distinction is more one of state than place, since those in paradise may minister to those in prison, as I Peter describes Jesus doing (3:19 ff). All but those who deny the Holy Spirit will eventually be released from this condition. At the final judgement, all but those who have denied the Holy Spirit are assigned to one of three heavens. Only in the highest is there direct communion with God, but all are wonderful places to be. In order to be in the highest place, you must be sealed in marriage in an LDS temple, and both mates must be faithful. However those who did not have an opportunity to do this will get one after death. LDS baptise and even marry on behalf of their ancestors in the temple, as part of this process. This is referred to as "temple work", and is one of the most unusual parts of LDS practice. LDS are in general well-educated and self-critical. For a group whose beliefs appear to me completely "off the wall" in ways, they are remarkably non-dogmatic and tolerant. They are not fundamentalists, either about the Bible or Book of Mormon. They sometimes get associated with the JW's, because both often go from door to door as "missionaries". (This is not mandatory for LDS.) However there is a remarkable difference in sophistication between the two groups. [You'll notice the language moving to "we" at this point. The following are gleaned from various correspondence I've had with LDS. The first is from Jay Windley.] Certain ordinances in the LDS Church are categorized as "saving" ordinances -- that is, we believe that a person must receive these ordinances to inherit the fullness of the postmortal reward. These ordinances are: baptism (by immersion); confirmation and the receipt of the gift of the Holy Spirit; ordination to the priesthood (for males); being washed, annointed, and clothed in the garment of the priesthood; reception of the temple endowment; and marriage. In LDS theology, these ordinances must be officiated by one having priesthood authority, and in the case of the washings, endowment and marriage must be performed in a consecrated temple. Mormons believe that God removed the true priesthood authority from the earth shortly after the deaths of the apostles, and restored it later to Joseph Smith. We believe that same authority exists in the LDS Church today. Inasmuch as there were many souls who lived (in all ages of time) -- through no fault of their own -- in circumstances which did not allow them to participate in the saving ordinances (either because the authority was not on the earth to perform them or because they were not privileged to come in contact with the Lord's ministers), there must be means prepared for them to receive these ordinances. LDS believe that the process of spreading the Christian gospel continues in the hereafter. Those faithful who pass on minister to those who have not heard of Christ nor received the saving ordinances. According to LDS theology, the saving ordinances must be received in the flesh, hence mortal Christians receive those ordinances "for and in behalf" of those who have passed on. These deceased then have the opportunity either to accept or to reject that ordinance done in their behalf. Thus, we believe they may "be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit." 1 Pet. 4:6. These ordinances, when performed for the dead, are performed in the LDS temples scattered throughout the world. Children born to parents whose marriage was performed "for eternity" in an LDS temple are considered "born under the covenant," or a member of that immediate family effective for eternity. Parents who were married by civil or ecclesiastical authority and who later become Mormons may have their marriage rendered effective for eternity in the temple, and any existing children are "sealed" to those parents at that time. Children adopted by LDS parents may be sealed to them in the temple. All these ordinances may be performed in behalf of the deceased. It is LDS belief that families so united will not be parted in the hereafter, but will exist forever as a family. In effect, all those who have lived on the earth will be united under our mutal mortal parents Adam and Eve, and under our Heavenly Parents (LDS theology declares the existence of a Heavenly Mother as well, but provides no information beyond this) as one family. The LDS emphasis on genealogy arises from the responsibility we feel to those of our era who have passed on without the opportunity to receive these ordinances in the flesh. We believe it is our duty to find these people and give them the opportunity to accept or reject these ordinances. (cf. Malachi 4:5-6). The procedure for these ordinances was given by revelation to Joseph Smith along with the priesthood authority to perform them. Most LDS males hold the authority to baptize, to confer the gift of the Holy Ghost, and to ordain other priests. Authority to perform the other ordinances are vested in specially commissioned LDS priesthood holders (e.g., the presiding authority in each temple). If you desire more detailed information, I can refer you to one of a handful of books written by LDS leaders which describe in greater depth the purpose of LDS temples (I do not have the references handy). [The following is from Frank Farkas.] >I believe I have seen LDS members on this group from time to time. Would >someone explain the nature, purpose, and origin of the Mormon ordinances of >baptism and sealing to parents and spouses. I am curious about the >intense LDS interest in genealogy. A response was already provided by Jay Windley. However, I would like to provide some Biblical passages which indicates that doing ordinances for for the dead, who had no opportunity to hear and to respond to the gospel in this life, is appropriate and not contrary to the teachings of the Bible. I am not saying that the LDS temple ordinances for the deceased are spelled out in the Bible, but only that they have Biblical roots. The reason why I am doing this is because some orthodox Christians believe that the doctrins of my church are appart and separate from the teachings of the Bible. It is true that we claim new revelation which one can't find spelled out in the Bible, nevertheless, their roots are deeply embedded in the Biblical revelations. I don't believe that it is timely at this time to start another round of discussion regarding LDS history or the truthfulness of Book of Mormon. However, I believe that it is appropriate to discuss the doctrinal beliefs of my church. I don't remember that this had been done in the past without getting side tract. Malachi 4:4-6 ============= "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and dreadful day of the Lord:" "And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse." Hebrews 11:39-40 ================ "And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:" "God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect." I Corint 15:29 -------------- "Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?" I Peter 3:18-19 =============== "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:" "By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;" I Peter 4:6 ----------- "For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit." From news@magus.cs.utah.edu Mon Dec 4 18:07:23 1995 Return-Path: news@magus.cs.utah.edu Received: from relay7.UU.NET ([192.48.96.17]) by aramis.rutgers.edu (8.6.12+bestmx+oldruq+newsunq+grosshack/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA20457 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 1995 18:07:22 -0500 Received: from cs.utah.edu by relay7.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzssi27267; Mon, 4 Dec 1995 18:06:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from magus.cs.utah.edu by cs.utah.edu (8.6.12/utah-2.21-cs) id QAA05881; Mon, 4 Dec 1995 16:06:41 -0700 Received: by magus.cs.utah.edu (5.67b/utah-2.15sun-leaf) id AA28931; Mon, 4 Dec 1995 16:06:40 -0700 To: soc-religion-christian@uunet.uu.net Path: jwindley From: jwindley@sal.cs.utah.edu (Jay Windley) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Are Mormans Christian? Date: 4 Dec 1995 23:06:39 GMT Organization: University of Utah Lines: 75 Message-Id: <49vutv$s81@magus.cs.utah.edu> References: <49e9m0$cqn@heidelberg.rutgers.edu> <49gu0f$f4k@heidelberg.rutgers.edu> <49u2eo$pmq@heidelberg.rutgers.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: sal.cs.utah.edu gt7122b@prism.gatech.edu (Randal Lee Mandock) writes: >Thank you for bringing this up, Charles. But may we take it one step >farther? Perhaps Jay can tell us a little about Christ's >relationship to Satan, I would be happy to clarify the LDS position on Satan. But the tone of your post suggests what you are really after is a debate on fine points of doctrine. Those debates are never edifying and rarely informative, and I will not be drawn into one. As the moderator notes, Mormons believe that Satan, humankind, the angels, Jesus Christ, and God are all of the same fundamental "species." This relationship is usually expressed in familial terms. We believe God to be our father in the sense that he created our spirit bodies. (Mormons believe that "intelligence" -- the prime essence of our beings -- is uncreated.) Jesus is our eldest brother. We believe others such as Michael and Gabriel had prominent status in the pre-existence. God proposed to test his children by having them experience life on earth. By this they would learn by their own experience between good and evil. If they successfully passed the test, they could return and inherit God's heavenly kingdom. God cannot tolerate the least unrighteousness in his presence, therefore any of his children who sinned in the least would be ineligible to return to God's presence. However, a fitting test/lesson would provide for failures followed by repentence and accumulated wisdom. This was the dilemma posed to God's children. Lucifer's plan was to vest himself with God's power and enforce God's laws in the absolute. As soon as someone stood on the verge of sin, Lucifer would swoop in and save him, ensuring that the potentially wayward son would return to earth. The genius of the plan was that none of God's precious children would be lost. The danger was that Lucifer would then essentially be God. However, Jesus' plan allowed for people to commit sin while learning, and to repent. They would be rendered spotless by someone vicariously taking away the stain of sin. Only someone who had no inherent sin would be eligible to do this. Jesus volunteered to suffer the sins of God's children so that God could have them back. He asked for no glory for himself. God chose Jesus' plan. Lucifer was angry, and cursed God. He and his followers fought against Jesus and his followers but did not prevail. Lucifer, as punishment, was cast out of heaven and regarded thereafter as the devil, the author of evil. His desire is that all of God's children will be miserable as he is, forever outside of God's presence. And so he tempts God's children to do evil and not repent, for then Christ's plan cannot save them. Mormonism believes that in the most fundamental sense, all the beings mentioned above are in some way equivalent. However in LDS theology this equivalence is not so important. It's like the biological notion that all life on earth is based on carbon. That is true, but largely unimportant when considering the vast array of life and the different possibilities it offers. What is more important is that God's children "keep" the various "estates" or conditions in which they have been placed. The pre-existence is regarded as the "first estate," and Satan did not keep his first estate. Therefore he is cast out and banished, and can have no increase. He is therefore inferior even to humans, which have entered their "second estate," i.e., mortality, and have fallen because of Adam's transgression. Jesus, having kept all estates, is superior to all but God. I am fully aware of the fact that traditional Christianity believes differently on these topics. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jay Windley * University of Utah * Salt Lake City jwindley@cs.utah.edu http://www.cs.utah.edu/~jwindley/ --- I remember when the Information Superhighway was a footpath. ---